The Temple of the Living God

3 07 2007

bodypiercing1103.jpg

14Stay away from people who are not followers of the Lord! Can someone who is good get along with someone who is evil? Are light and darkness the same? 15Is Christ a friend of Satan? Can people who follow the Lord have anything in common with those who don’t? 16 Do idols belong in the temple of God? We are the temple of the living God, as God himself says, “I will live with these people and walk among them. I will be their God, and they will be my people.” 17The Lord also says, “Leave them and stay away! Don’t touch anything that isn’t clean. Then I will welcome you 18 and be your Father. You will be my sons and my daughters, as surely as I am God, the All-Powerful.”

(2 Corinthians 6:14-18, Contemporary English Version)

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10 responses

4 07 2007
Shirley

That picture is astounding. If it is okay with you, I may use it someday, giving you credit, of course. The concept of separation is so valid and sensible, yet rarely understood, I am afraid.

Blessings.

Shirley Buxton
http://www.shirleybuxton.wordpress.com

4 07 2007
kclick

The picture is not mine. I found it on the web…
Blessings

5 07 2007
Noogatiger

Did Jesus stay away from people who were not his followers?
Was Jesus accused of hanging around publicans and sinners?
Was Jesus accused of maybe drinking a little too much wine, and in fact was called a winebibber?
Didn’t Jesus despise the Pharisees?

So, in fact Jesus was not “separate” from the world himself.
Doesn’t in fact this doctrine of separation come from a legalistic Pharisaical attitude?

Christian’s are not good, they just have faith.
Christians have all the failings, sins, problems and worries that non-believer do.
They are supposed to be new creates in Christ, but in my 39 years as a Christian I came to see that they are no different. They can change if they want to, but many do the same things the non-believers do and have all the same problems.

I am a non believer now, but you guys can’t get along with me , if you just wanted to.
The choice is yours, and I think your Lord Jesus Christ would have. Heck he would probably have a drink with me.

P.S. Being a non-believer is not the same as being evil. You may think so, but it isn’t.
Oh, and didn’t God create evil anyway, and Satan? So I think God knows him pretty well.

5 07 2007
kclick

Dear one for whom Christ died,

Your reaction is telling. The post above contains two things: a picture and scripture. What is not found is any personal comments from me. Thus your reaction is based solely on the inescapable conclusion you have drawn from the clear teaching of scripture.
So who are you really at odds with?

6 07 2007
Noogatiger

.. I am at odds with ignorance. (not calling you this, but this book, cause I too believed it for 39 of my 49 years on this planet)

I was a born again, saved by grace, and justified Christian for 39 years.
However I began to see that the real world did not work like the God of the Bible taught that it should. I began to see that 99.9% of the prayers of the faithful offered up at church or home simply did not get answered. I began to actually read what Matthew, Mark and John had to say about prayer, and I could easily see that they either badly overstated the effects of prayer, or simply outright lied.

I discovered that the Bible which I was always taught was inerrant was chock full of errors, scientific errors, moral problems, contradictions, failed prophecies, it condones polygamy, slavery, and is misogynistic. I found errors and discrepancies in the stories surrounding the nativity story. I see errors and discrepancies in when the Passover dinner happened. I see the errors and discrepancies in who came to the empty tomb and when.

I discovered that the doctrine of and eternal Hell fire was from pagan Greek mythology and that it was added to the Bible to scare the hell out of people. Hell, was not even in the original writings of the scriptures. Then I started wondering what else may have been added or changed.

Did I set out to discredit the Bible, no? I was a Christian. I just knew that some things I had been taught were wrong and set out to find the truth. I did the worst thing a cult member can do. I started studying our scripture to see what was actually true and what wasn’t.

I have discovered that the Bible could not possibly have come from God. It was a book by men, about men, the women who were their property, and the God they made up.

So, the truth is that Christians are not separate from the world in any way. We were fully a part of it all along and just didn’t know it. We no longer need this 2000-3000 year old conglomeration of books written by women hating men to tell us how to live. We can figure out “the truth” ourselves, and do a much better job of it.

6 07 2007
kclick

Dear one for whom Christ died,

Your “discoveries” are all well known criticisms that survive by rejecting the Christian answers to them.

I ask you to prayerfully consider the alternatives. A great place to start is at “bethinking.org” (http://www.bethinking.org/index.php).

Particularly listen to Amy Orr-Ewing in the “History and Jesus” section.
She speaks on the subjects of:
“Isn’t the Bible sexiest and out of Date?”
“We cannot know what happened in History.”
“Five Post-Modern questions about the Bible”

6 07 2007
Noogatiger

Been there done that.
The Christian answers to these objections are not answers. They are obfuscations.
They are circular in reasoning, and seek to get around a problem, not answer them.

In the end you will believe what is safe, what keeps you feeling secure. I understand that, I was there for 39 years. I tried, I mean I really tried to overlook the hard scriptures, to accept the shallow obfuscations offered as explanations but it was driving me crazy.

I have found peace of mind now, believe it or not. I no longer struggle with new science and how it can possibly be reconciled with the Bible. I no longer struggle with the real world and how it can possibly be reconciled with what the Bible says. I really don’t. I no longer have a fear of eternal punishment, I really don’t. It simply doesn’t exist, and never did even in your Bible.

If this were really God’s words, would it need so much clarifying, so much explaining of the true meaning, so much apologetics and would it be this messed up?

Really, one day you should set down and do a Bible Study. I don’t mean a directed Bible Study with material from your pastor, or your church. I mean Study the Bible. Study its origins, the Septuagint, the Apocrypha, The book of Enoch, the Book of Thomas and other New Testament books left out of the Bible. Study the development of the canon of New Testament scripture. Don’t’ just use and accept one source on any of this either, study many sources. Come to your own conclusions. However don’t do your study with your pre-conceptions that it is “The Truth”, set in stone. Do your study to see if this book really could be “The truth”. If it is, it will be easy to prove, don’t you think? That is what I thought, but I was wrong.

6 07 2007
Brad

Hrmm… Nooga and I don’t particularly get along (on other blogs), but he has a point in that we are not called to separate ourselves from non-believers, but to keep a distance in fellowship with them.

We are not to circle the wagons and rest in the Christian subculture, but to go out into the culture and bring the gospel with us. What Paul is referring to in this passage is that we are not to be so firmly yoked that it begins to eat away at our faith through sin (i.e. being “yoked to an unbeliever”).

We cannot read these verses without reading the great commission as well.

Also, the English Standard Version is sooo much better, and so much closer to the original Greek. It is much clearer and much more in agreement with other places in scripture where we are called to go out into the culture. Here it is:

14 Do not be unequally yoked with unbelievers. For what partnership has righteousness with lawlessness? Or what fellowship has light with darkness? 15 What accord has Christ with Belial? Or what portion does a believer share with an unbeliever? 16 What agreement has the temple of God with idols? For we are the temple of the living God; as God said,
I will make my dwelling among them and walk among them,

and I will be their God,

and they shall be my people.
17
Therefore go out from their midst,

and be separate from them, says the Lord,

and touch no unclean thing;

then I will welcome you,
18
and I will be a father to you,

and you shall be sons and daughters to me,

says the Lord Almighty.

7 07 2007
kclick

Dear one for whom Christ died,

I‘m sure your academic credentials qualify you to dismiss as obfuscation any and all explanations that run contrary to what you have come to believe, but they haven’t prevented you from making erroneous assumptions and then drawing false conclusions in our brief exchange.

Now if your assumptions and conclusions between us are wrongheaded, it is certainly possible you have made similar mistakes in assessing the evidence for Christianity.

In fact, I’m convinced you are mistaken.

7 07 2007
kclick

Hello Brad,

I agree, the English Standard Version is very good. Thanks for your input.

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